As cease-fire talks continue, NPR’s Leila Fadel talks with Jonathan Dekel-Chen, whose son Sagui is believed to be alive and among the Israeli hostages who were seized by Hamas in the Oct. 7 attacks.
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Could a ceasefire agreement in Gaza be imminent? It’s an answer civilians in Gaza living under fire and families of hostages stolen from Israel by Hamas-led gunmen are waiting and waiting to hear. Qatar is mediating between Israeli and Hamas representatives and says a deal is at its closest point in months. If it happens, it would mean the release of some of the about 100 hostages – some alive and some dead – still being held in Gaza, in exchange for releasing Palestinians held in Israel. Our next guest’s son is among the Israeli hostages still inside Gaza. Sagui Dekel-Chen is an Israeli American and father of three girls. He was kidnapped on October 7 from Kibbutz Nir Oz, and he is believed to be alive. His father, Jonathan, joins us now by Skype from the Israeli city of Kiryat Gat, about 15 miles from Gaza. Good morning, and thank you for being on the program.
JONATHAN DEKEL-CHEN: Good morning.
FADEL: Jonathan, there have been so many times over the last 8-10 months where a ceasefire deal seemed possible and didn’t happen. Does this time feel different for you and your family?
DEKEL-CHEN: Well, we’ll know in a couple of days, I imagine. I mean, clearly, there’s a sense of urgency now that was triggered by President-elect Trump’s statement nearly seven weeks ago and – that demanded that all parties do what they must to get a hostage deal and ceasefire done before he assumes office next week. And that clearly rattled enough cages, you know, in Israel, Qatar, Egypt – and, of course, in Hamas – to move things forward at a pace that we’ve actually never seen before. Now, you know, the proof is – we await it, to see when this can get signed and people can start coming home.
FADEL: Do you feel like there wasn’t this kind of pressure before?
DEKEL-CHEN: Well, I know for a fact that the Biden administration – you know, which, again, is not going to be a signatory to this – did what it could. But, you know, clearly, there was something else needed, and that something else evidently is – came from President-elect Trump. You know, we are – we clearly saw, immediately after his statement, that – a kind of undusting of a very stagnated process that had really not moved for weeks, perhaps even months. And so that is clear. Now, what the result is going to be remains to be seen.
FADEL: What have you been told about where your son is and what his condition is?
DEKEL-CHEN: Well, as your listeners may know, Hamas has never allowed the Red Cross, Red Crescent or any other international organization to meet with the hostages. The only information we have about Sagui came over a year ago. In the first – as a result of the first negotiated agreement, about 100 women and children hostages were released by Hamas. And some of them were able to tell us that at that time – late November, early December – they had seen Sagui alive. But they had seen many others from our community, Kibbutz Nir Oz, at that time who we know for a fact were subsequently murdered by Hamas in captivity. So the fact that we knew something in, you know, early December of 2023 means very little right now.
FADEL: Do you know anything about whether your son’s name is on a list of hostages who could be released if this deal comes through?
DEKEL-CHEN: Honestly, I only know what has been published in the media in Israel and abroad. I have no way of knowing whether or not Sagui will be coming out in the first wave of releasees. But I think I can speak for all Israelis that, you know, hostage number 98 is no less important than hostage number one for getting them all home and, of course, by way of this hostage deal, being able to end the madness in Gaza.
FADEL: What has it been like to be in limbo for all this time without news of Sagui?
DEKEL-CHEN: It’s been hellish. There’s no other way to say it. I look into my granddaughters’ eyes, his three little girls – one of whom he’s never met, who was born two months after the massacre, Hamas’ massacre on Nir Oz. And, you know, I cannot answer any of their questions about why their father was kidnapped along with 78 other members of our kibbutz – 29 still remain of the 98 – are part of my extended family from the kibbutz. I have no answers for these lovely and lovable three little girls. When’s dad coming home? Is he OK? It’s been awful on multiple levels. And, of course, our homes were completely destroyed, and our way of life on Nir Oz, by the terrorists and looters that came to our kibbutz on October 7.
FADEL: Have you talked to the girls about the developments at all? Do you protect them from it? I mean, how do you talk to his daughters about the future and their father?
DEKEL-CHEN: We don’t get into the details because we don’t want them to be crushed with disappointment, but they hear what they hear in the environment around them. And, you know, we try to reassure them, to the degree that it’s possible – because the two older ones, of course, miss their dad terribly – that we’re doing everything that we can and, you know, we will not stop until he comes home. Is that good enough for a 7- and 3-year-old? Of course not. For the 1-year-old, you know, that’s the beauty of being 1 years old. I mean, you – she doesn’t ask a lot of questions. But as far as the other – the older girls are concerned, it’s been an enormous challenge. And none of us can begin to heal until the hostages are home and, again, as a consequence of that, allowing the people of Gaza to resume something that resembles normal life.
FADEL: This directly impacted your family, your community, changed your life. You’re waiting of news of your son, extended family. Does it feel any safer for you, all these months later, with this war in Gaza?
DEKEL-CHEN: Well, you know, it’s a very good question. Over the course of the last year, Israel has incapacitated and highly reduced most of the military threats that it has faced over these last years – you know, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, the Houthis. But in terms of the internal coherence of Israeli society and solidarity, that still is in great danger. And that healing, as well, can only come for Israeli society when the hostages come home.
FADEL: Jonathan Dekel-Chen’s son, Sagui, is believed to be one of the hostages still held by Hamas and still alive. Thank you for speaking with us, and I hope you are reunited with your son soon.
DEKEL-CHEN: Thank you very much.
(SOUNDBITE OF ALEXIS FFRENCH’S “PAPILLON (SOLO PIANO VERSION)”)
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